I can certainly empathize with the frustrations brought on by the rigors of a job search. Having been out of work myself for over a year in the recent past, I understand. You are quite correct, looking for a job/career takes a lot of time – in fact, it is a full time job in and of itself. And, the pressures of not having a job can make it all the more challenging.

Hopefully this won’t sound harsh, but this is the reality…hiring managers’ allegiance is to the company and they are responsible for finding the best possible candidates. The cost of just hiring and training an employee can run into thousands of dollars. If it doesn’t work out that is a monetary loss for the company.

If an applicant isn’t invested 100% in doing everything it takes to get a position, to present themselves in the best possible light, to stand out from the crowd, then what can the hiring manager infer other than the applicant won’t be invested 100% in their work. Remember, the job search process is an investment in you yourself. If you aren’t fully invested in yourself and your future how can an employer believe you will give 100% to the work they are paying you to do?

By researching companies applicants can weed out ones that really won’t be a good match and would then thereby cut down on their application workload. This would give more time to be allocated to putting together the best possible “package” to present to the perspective employer. Quality always trumps quantity. This is especially true for industries where communication and image are essential to success. General labor jobs are a completely different matter – where reading, writing etc aren’t so important. Leeway is accorded in those cases.

If an applicant is just firing off letters and resumes to any and every employer in the hopes of finding any job (vs. a career) the message a poorly written, non-spellchecked letter and resume gives is – “I just want any job no matter what it is.” Outside of entry level positions that is not what an employer is looking for in an applicant. The more professional the position the more closely scrutinized the application documents will be.

Also, remember, many employers (especially big companies) use software to scan documents and if the content doesn’t match the algorithm it will get kicked out before human eyes ever see it. This is one of the more unfortunate aspects of technology.

The upshot is, you have to do what you have to do in order to land the job.

Good points…it’s reality…but perhaps a few recruiters can look past the thorns on the rose and look for real horspower on those imperfect entries.

It’s interesting that you say retention is your #1 concern (is that because of your industry being high turnover?). That might be a little presumptuous in the era of at-will employment. This makes for an interesting conundrum. The candidate is required to stay and be retained, yet the company has no upfront commitment to keep, retain, train, or promote the candidate for their employable lifetime. Most employees will change jobs every 2-3 years, so the statistics say that even though a candidate might want to be retained, they probably will not be retained (either be laid off, promoted, or move on). It’s probably better, as a job seeker, to find out the hot buttons of the hiring manager and develop a personal/professional relationship with them prior to having the position be posted. Treat the process like a salesperson, not a blind applicant. Rather than wade through hundreds of applications and waste their time, they could go with someone they already know and trust.

On the topic of compensation, how does it hurt the company to disclose the range up front? It’s this little cat and mouse game. By establishing a range upfront, when candidates apply, the hiring manager knows they have accepted the range & if both parties decide to deviate from the range, that ought to be part of a negotiation during the hiring process (wishful thinking I guess!) Also, there are many individuals that will work for a lesser wage because of their need for income to support their family. Isn’t it really up to the hiring manager and the candidate agree on the compensation & terms of the hire? If the company would disclose the wage up front, then the candidate would have a choice to accept, or not, going for the position. Have you ever heard of a hiring manager that didn’t have a range or budget for a hire? In David’s case, might have been better to deflect the question than to flat reject it (ie only handle the objection that’s preventing you from getting the interview). It would go something like this: “Mrs. Hiring manager, that’s a valid concern (acknowledge the objection). Even my current employer asked me that question. What we found during the interview process is that the fit was so good between us that we worked out the compensation within the company range (feel-felt-found technique). What range has the company established for this position? (always end with a question that puts the ball back in their court).

The frustration heard in David’s post is that he’s playing the role of applicant, which has a low probability of getting hired (1%). What do they call it when you do the same thing over and over again, each time expecting a different result?

Just one mans opinion(s) on the matter(s).

It’s interesting that you say retention is your #1 concern (is that because of your industry being high turnover?). That might be a little presumptuous in the era of at-will employment. This makes for an interesting conundrum. The candidate is required to stay and be retained, yet the company has no upfront commitment to keep, retain, train, or promote the candidate for their employable lifetime. Most employees will change jobs every 2-3 years, so the statistics say that even though a candidate might want to be retained, they probably will not be retained (either be laid off, promoted, or move on). It’s probably better, as a job seeker, to find out the hot buttons of the hiring manager and develop a personal/professional relationship with them prior to having the position be posted. Treat the process like a salesperson, not a blind applicant. Rather than wade through hundreds of applications and waste their time, they could go with someone they already know and trust.

On the topic of compensation, how does it hurt the company to disclose the range up front? It’s this little cat and mouse game. By establishing a range upfront, when candidates apply, the hiring manager knows they have accepted the range & if both parties decide to deviate from the range, that ought to be part of a negotiation during the hiring process (wishful thinking I guess!) Also, there are many individuals that will work for a lesser wage because of their need for income to support their family. Isn’t it really up to the hiring manager and the candidate agree on the compensation & terms of the hire? If the company would disclose the wage up front, then the candidate would have a choice to accept, or not, going for the position. Have you ever heard of a hiring manager that didn’t have a range or budget for a hire? In David’s case, might have been better to deflect the question than to flat reject it (ie only handle the objection that’s preventing you from getting the interview). It would go something like this: “Mrs. Hiring manager, that’s a valid concern (acknowledge the objection). Even my current employer asked me that question. What we found during the interview process is that the fit was so good between us that we worked out the compensation within the company range (feel-felt-found technique). What range has the company established for this position? (always end with a question that puts the ball back in their court).

The frustration heard in David’s post is that he’s playing the role of applicant, which has a low probability of getting hired (1%). What do they call it when you do the same thing over and over again, each time expecting a different result?

Just one mans opinion(s) on the matter(s).

The answer to your question about redundant information being requested on an application form can be answered in many ways because there are several variables to consider – from the Company’s perspective. And this is the perspective I am encourageing job seekers to look at and consider when applying for a job. I hope my answer, frank as it is, provides some useful insight.

Handwritten applications are commonplace. Accurate and complete information on a form give hints about an applicant – consistency, ability to follow directions, & neatness, to name a few. Also, the application is a legal document with your signature. A resume is not.

The application is a behavioral test too. Most jobs entail following policies and procedures that appear to be redundant and inefficient. The applicant’s response to the request says more about the applicant than the words on the form.

Consider these two approaches an applicant can take and guess which one will have a more successful interview and chance at getting hired.

a) The applicant is miffed that s/he has to provide duplicate information, has the attitude that 8-10 minutes is an “unfair waste of time.” The applicant then comes into the interview with this negative attitude and that influences his or her demeanor and responses to the interviewer. S/he complains to the recruiter or hiring manager. Or the hiring manager notes that sections were glossed over, or left blank. What do you imagine is the first impression of this applicant? The perception is that this applicant will buck the processes in place, perhaps will be that employee that questions every directive and will often have ideas about “a better way” to do things – the “know-it-all.” This may not be true about the applicant but more than likely this will be the perception.

b) The job seeker sees the application form as an opportunity to show their attention to detail, their cooperative nature, and space to add additional information about themselves and their skills that may not already be included on the resume. This applicant sees this as a second go at conveying his or her personal brand story. The attitude they walk into the interview with is positive, enthused about having an opportunity to show off their talents, team spirit and can-do approach to assigned tasks. Chances are this applicant is smiling genuinely and the interviewer’s first hit of this person is a warm, open and inviting one.

So, bottom line, the handwritten form is part of the hiring process. That isn’t going to change. You want a job? Then do what it takes to get the job. Show you have a positive can-do attitude.

Re the salary issue: The hiring manager needs a sense of your expectations for compensation. They know the range and if the applicant’s range is over that then there is no point in going forward. A less confrontational way to respond to the request could be “I am hopeful that I advance far along enough in the process when we can talk more specifically about salary. I can tell you that I am comfortable somewhere in the range of $xxx.xx – $xxx.xx a year. Does this position fall within that?” The hiring manager will appreciate the applicant’s diplomacy skills and will be able to gauge if it is reasonable to move ahead with the process.

There are a lot of things about work and life that we don’t like doing, that we do see any sense to, that we don’t have control over. What we do have control over is how we approach such challenges and frustrations.

Remember, the human mind cannot hold two opposing thoughts at one time. So if you have a negative thought going on, there is no room for a positive thought to come in. Conversely, if you hold a positive thought you create a higher potential for continued positivity.

I hope this has been helpful and useful for you, David.

The answer to your question about redundant information being requested on an application form can be answered in many ways because there are several variables to consider – from the Company’s perspective. And this is the perspective I am encourageing job seekers to look at and consider when applying for a job. I hope my answer, frank as it is, provides some useful insight.

Handwritten applications are commonplace. Accurate and complete information on a form give hints about an applicant – consistency, ability to follow directions, & neatness, to name a few. Also, the application is a legal document with your signature. A resume is not.

The application is a behavioral test too. Most jobs entail following policies and procedures that appear to be redundant and inefficient. The applicant’s response to the request says more about the applicant than the words on the form.

Consider these two approaches an applicant can take and guess which one will have a more successful interview and chance at getting hired.

a) The applicant is miffed that s/he has to provide duplicate information, has the attitude that 8-10 minutes is an “unfair waste of time.” The applicant then comes into the interview with this negative attitude and that influences his or her demeanor and responses to the interviewer. S/he complains to the recruiter or hiring manager. Or the hiring manager notes that sections were glossed over, or left blank. What do you imagine is the first impression of this applicant? The perception is that this applicant will buck the processes in place, perhaps will be that employee that questions every directive and will often have ideas about “a better way” to do things – the “know-it-all.” This may not be true about the applicant but more than likely this will be the perception.

b) The job seeker sees the application form as an opportunity to show their attention to detail, their cooperative nature, and space to add additional information about themselves and their skills that may not already be included on the resume. This applicant sees this as a second go at conveying his or her personal brand story. The attitude they walk into the interview with is positive, enthused about having an opportunity to show off their talents, team spirit and can-do approach to assigned tasks. Chances are this applicant is smiling genuinely and the interviewer’s first hit of this person is a warm, open and inviting one.

So, bottom line, the handwritten form is part of the hiring process. That isn’t going to change. You want a job? Then do what it takes to get the job. Show you have a positive can-do attitude.

Re the salary issue: The hiring manager needs a sense of your expectations for compensation. They know the range and if the applicant’s range is over that then there is no point in going forward. A less confrontational way to respond to the request could be “I am hopeful that I advance far along enough in the process when we can talk more specifically about salary. I can tell you that I am comfortable somewhere in the range of $xxx.xx – $xxx.xx a year. Does this position fall within that?” The hiring manager will appreciate the applicant’s diplomacy skills and will be able to gauge if it is reasonable to move ahead with the process.

There are a lot of things about work and life that we don’t like doing, that we do see any sense to, that we don’t have control over. What we do have control over is how we approach such challenges and frustrations.

Remember, the human mind cannot hold two opposing thoughts at one time. So if you have a negative thought going on, there is no room for a positive thought to come in. Conversely, if you hold a positive thought you create a higher potential for continued positivity.

I hope this has been helpful and useful for you, David.

Another hiring manager refused to interview me because I wouldn’t provide my salary at my current job. I politely informed her that I didn’t see how my salary history determined if I was qualified for the job that I was applying for, at which point she became extremely rude and told me I was wasting her time.

Does anyone else have examples of hiring managers having them jump through seemingly unneccesary hoops?

Another hiring manager refused to interview me because I wouldn’t provide my salary at my current job. I politely informed her that I didn’t see how my salary history determined if I was qualified for the job that I was applying for, at which point she became extremely rude and told me I was wasting her time.

Does anyone else have examples of hiring managers having them jump through seemingly unneccesary hoops?